Is This “Opportunity” In Your “Zone”?

On this week’s show, Karl welcomes guest Casey Keller to discuss Opportunity Zone investing.  What is it and who would be a good fit for this type of inestment?

Also, Karl gives listeners a warning about insurance salesmen dressing up like advisors.

Karl:       Hey, good morning, everybody. Welcome to The Eggers Report, it’s Your Investing Playbook. Thanks for joining me. Hey, got a good show for you today. Got a lot of stuff to cover in a short amount of time, so grab your coffee and sit back, and by the way, I tried Turkish coffee. Have any of you ever tried Turkish coffee? I actually tried some. I was in Greece recently and tried some Turkish coffee and it’s interesting. I will say that, it’s just interesting. Very bold. If you don’t like bold coffee then you will not like this but making it is the fun part. Maybe I’ll post a picture somewhere, one of these social media things, with my Turkish coffee.

Karl:       Anyways, grab your coffee, whether it’s Turkish or American or Starbuckian and sit back. We’re going to discuss opportunity zones. Have you heard about an opportunity zone? We’re going to talk about that and then I’m also going to give you a warning about, be on the lookout for things that may be too good to be true. Obviously, people come in here all the time, they show me their investments, they show me things that are being pitched. I look at them and I’m always shocked the stuff that’s still floating around that gives our industry a bad name. So we’re going to talk about that in just a minute. If you want to get ahold of us, 210-526-0057. Our website’s, That’s E-G-G-E-R-S, and lot of information on there. Before we get into the warning that I’m going to give you and also the discussion on opportunity zones and we’re going to have Casey Keller come in the studio here and join me in just a minute to talk about opportunity zone investing, what that exactly is.

Karl:       The stock market, we just finished the month, we finished a quarter, and I think it was the best quarter since 2009. So as we’ve been talking about the last few weeks, I’ve asked you a few different times what you’ve been doing. A lot of you have given me information as far as what your thoughts are. This is a major, major head fake if you got to bearish at the end of December. Now, I do want to warn you and I’m starting to see this, I’m starting to see complacency set in here. I’m talking to people that were in a panic in October, November, especially December, and now the market’s bounced and it’s very calm, everything looks great, the charts look like they are going straight up. It’s not always going to be that easy and this is the time. As I said, the last couple of weeks, this is the time to put together a strategy and make sure that that strategy fits what your needs are, what your goals are, and then have a portfolio that reflects that.

Karl:       So this is the time to take those positions off that you shouldn’t have had in the first place. Maybe your positioning size is too much. Right? You have too much in one particular stock or too much in one particular mutual fund or an ETF or you have too many stocks versus bonds. Whatever it is, this is a great time to do some assessment. If you need help with that assessing, we will be able to do that for you if you want, or do it on your own, but you need to do it. So the market did have this tremendous bounce this quarter. It started really on Christmas Eve, the 26th. We started to see some dramatic turn around and this week we saw the market really move a lot and Monday the market bounced all over the place, but basically finished flat. Really, the big news of the day was the Apple event. Now, Apple had this big event to unveil some new products, some new services. They unveiling their new streaming service, they had Oprah Winfrey, they had Steven Spielberg there, and they also unveiled a new credit card.

Karl:       And it’s interesting because many people believe technology companies, like Google, like Apple, like Amazon, will enter the financial area in some form or fashion and Apple unveiled a credit card. Did you know that? They unveiled a credit card, both one of your phone and a physical one if you want. No fees, no this, no that. Has some tracking so what’s nice about it is, unlike a lot of credit cards, you get your statement and you see some description that makes zero cents to you and you go, “I don’t even know what this is.” They have the technology with their mapping system to tell you, “Hey, you know what? That was this particular restaurant to.” And then it categorizes it and it’s starting to kind of keep track of your spending. Probably a loss leader for them, right? Maybe they won’t make a lot of money on that but if you have that you’ll want to get one of their phones.

Karl:       So it’s probably trying to go after people switching from an android to an Apple phone. But look, at the end of the day, nothing major here. I still think Apple is reactionary. We don’t own the stock right now. It’s not that I terribly dislike it but it’s just not as attractive right now as it has been. But these events are just, they seem like they’re for show. They have all these adjectives that they’re new air pods are the most revolutionary, they’re the most beautiful, the most sleek, they have all these adjectives to describe their products. Taking a page from Steve Jobs back in the day about how great their products are and they are great products. There’s no doubt about it and they’re sucking people into their ecosystem even more but they still don’t have that something to go to the next level right now. They’re improving, everything’s great, a great company, very good company. But I’m waiting for some kind of wow product and I think that product’s going to be the foldable iPhone.

Karl:       Maybe in the next year, maybe two years, I think you’ll see that. Take your phone, if you have one of the larger ones, imagine doubling it width wise with a seamless screen that can be bent and you literally fold it and it has two sides. It can open up. It’s like having an iPad Mini basically at your disposal but it’s a phone. We’re going to go back to the clam shell phones. That’s what I think will make people want to upgrade. Now, as I’ve mentioned, the new iPhone which I have is phenomenal. It’s phenomenal mainly, the thing that’s the best about it, is this camera is ridiculous. It is so good. I went on a trip recently, international, and it’s just phenomenal. You really don’t need a DSLR camera unless you’re doing zoom and things of that nature. Their portrait mode, phenomenal.

Karl:       But I still talk to a lot of people who say, “You know what? My seven’s good, my eight’s good. I don’t really need that new phone.” And they probably don’t. So, for those reasons, I think they need something bigger and this foldable phone I think will be it. So that was Monday. Not a lot of drama with the stock. Tuesday, market was up big but then slipped most of the day but a lot of stocks were still in the green but we saw the 10 year yield, the bond market, the 10 year yield, the interest rate, go to 15 month low to 2.35%. So you can lend your money to the government for 2.35% for 10 years, lowest level since December of 2017. Now, again, the whole talk the last few weeks has been, do we go into recession? Do we go into, we have an inverted yield curve? What does all that mean? Again, I don’t think we’re going into recession and even if we do, doesn’t mean the stock market does poorly.

Karl:       And even if it does do poorly and I’m wrong about that, it typically doesn’t start for a long time from now. Wednesday, we’ve got a little talk about trade talk. Thursday, fairly quiet day news flow wise. Friday, the market sold off in the morning with some Brexit news that hit the tape and kind of the gains were kind of cut in half and that kind of tells you the algorithms were in there, the machines basically trading headlines and then the humans took over and kind of bought the dip. We did see sales of new single family homes in the U.S. increased an 11 month high and January’s were also revised hire. So February’s were good and the January’s were revised higher so housing market still looks very good. And then late in the day, and this was kind of interesting on Friday, we did see Larry Kudlow say he wants the Fed to cut interest rates by 50 basis points or 0.05% or two cuts immediately. Right now.

Karl:       Now what’s interesting about this is you cut interest rates because you think the economy’s slowing and you’re worried about it. Larry Kudlow’s the perma-bull on the economy. He always thinks the economy’s great. It’s always great. It’s always good. You don’t think that and then you want interest rates cut. So that doesn’t really reconcile so if the economy’s going gangbusters like he thinks why would they want to be cutting interest rates. But the bond market is pricing in that the next move for the Fed is going to be a cut not a hike so that’s something that’s changed in the last few weeks. And then what also is interesting is he talked about the Federal Reserve as independent, they’re an independent central bank and then he’s basically saying he wants them to cut rates.

Karl:       Well, they’re independent and he talks about President wanting them to cut rates. Well, if they’re independent they shouldn’t be listening to anybody. So, that didn’t really make a lot of sense to me but that was the big moves this week. Some of the big news headlines. As far as what the market did, again, we’re seeing really a lot of the bounce back has been pretty phenomenal. I mean, we’re seeing the markets up in the double digit range for most of 2019 and this past week some of your leaders were railroad, banks bounces about about four percent, retail, all transports, bio-technology up about three percent. So most of those are up three to four percent. Pretty diverse, you can see. There is, I got, hurt not a lot but natural gas was down. Obviously, if you own volatility, which you can do, it was down. Silver was down, gold

Karl:       -gold was down. So kind of the risk on this week. Interesting though is that you are still seeing money still hanging in there as far as in the utilities, consumer staples. So utilities were down a little bit this week and still way overvalued. I would still caution you if you own utilities. I think that’s one of the more overvalued areas in this market. If you go into these companies one by one and you’ll see that it’s very, very overvalued.

Karl:       Now I do want to briefly mention a warning. So a client came in, had a proposal from another “advisor” which I later learned was just an insurance salesman. And basically it was a, get this, it’s an insurance policy that you borrow money from the bank on. So you borrow money from the bank, you’re paying interest on it, and you invest that money into a cash life insurance policy where you put a bunch of cash in.

Karl:       So you’re buying this huge life insurance policy, which he didn’t even really need. The illustration was run for a 50 year old, this gentleman is 64 years old. Didn’t even need life insurance and certainly didn’t want to be taking out a massive loan. It was a big loan by the way too. Took out a loan to do that. So once we looked at it, understood what it was, we explained to the client that this is a loan for a life insurance policy. You don’t need a loan and you don’t need a life insurance policy.

Karl:       But they pitched it as, “Hey, we can get you tax free income for the rest of your life.” And here’s the kicker. They assumed that he was going to make 6.5% every single year on this life insurance policy. Guess what happens if he doesn’t? The whole thing falls apart. It’s so bad, and yet this is the stuff that’s still getting pitched to people every day.

Karl:       So I warn you, if you have something that you’re confused about and it’s got 20 columns and it’s talking about surrender penalties, you are getting pitched an annuity or a life insurance policy. And some of you may need a life insurance policy, but if you do it’s because you’re trying to protect against your death and there’s probably a cheaper way to do it. So be very, very careful with some of the stuff floating around out there, because every time I think I’ve seen it all, then I see something like this. So that’s just a warning from something that I saw this past week.

Karl:       All right as I mentioned earlier in the show, we have a guest, his name is Casey Keller. He is a Chartered Financial Analyst and we’ve invited him back to talk about something that can really help you avoid taxes potentially and Casey, welcome back to the show.

Casey Keller:       Glad to be here Karl.

Karl:       So our job on this podcast has always been to inform people to give them information to help them in situations, to help reduce taxes, to maximize gains, all of that. And there’s something happening right now in the investment world, a new type of investment, that’s really an incentive given to investors to invest and we’re going to explain who it might benefit, kind of the pros and cons, and some of the pitfalls with it. It’s very new. So with that being said, tell us basically what it’s called first of all, and then we’ll go from there.

Casey Keller:       Well what the funds are called, Karl, are Opportunity Zone Funds but it came to be from the tax law, the new tax law that was passed late in 2017 and hadn’t really had much buzz around it until more recently as these funds have been created. But basically what the law has allowed or has created is an opportunity for private investment to invest in economically-challenged areas that they’re trying to gentrify and so there’s areas they’ve identified around the country, pretty much every state does have zoned ares and what they’re doing is they’re trying to get private investors to invest in these areas to basically build them back up.

Karl:       This sounds similar to, and you may be a little too young, but it seems like in the early 1990’s, I was working at a bank at the time, and I remember they had areas where they were basically forcing banks to give loans to certain geographical areas. Like essentially, forget the underwriting, your have to give a loan to this area. They looked at ratios, how many loans are you giving in certain areas that are more fluent than what you’re giving in these other places. This sounds kind of similar, but that was more forcing them to give loans, this is more incentivizing investors into these areas.

Casey Keller:       Exactly. Yeah, that was a regulatory requirement that banks had to check the box and make sure that they were … I forget the name of the, I know what you’re talking about, for the name of the actual rule, but yeah, they were required to show that they had so many loans in certain zip codes and what not, to comply with law, where this one is incentive based, like you said, and the incentive is pretty big potentially for investors.

Karl:       Yeah. So basically what it is, when we talk about an Opportunity Zone Fund, it is a real estate investment. It’s a pooled investment into real estate that these companies are going in and actually developing these areas and trying to make them better, right?

Casey Keller:       Right. They can go buy an existing building and improve it, like a value-add type situation or a lot of times they are just buying raw land and they’re building-

Karl:       They’re building it.

Casey Keller:       -apartment complex or some sort of property with the goal of rebuilding the area.

Karl:       So obviously there’s a lot of companies doing this more and more. First of all what’s interesting about it, we’ll talk about kind of what the investment looks like, and we’re not recommending an investment, we’re doing our homework on it, but we’re bringing this to you almost in real-time, because this is pretty new. A lot of these funds are just launching. But what’s interesting about it is they’ve defined the Opportunity Zones from an old census, right?

Casey Keller:       Right, right. It was from a 2010-

Karl:       Which was 2010.

Casey Keller:       -census, so a lot of these areas even have improved quite a bit from that time, but that’s how they defined it. And they had the Governors each-

Karl:       So, this could have been a horrible area in 2010, but here we are almost 10 years later, these areas may be developed and really low-risk from an investment standpoint, but they’re still considered “an Opportunity Zone.”

Casey Keller:       Right. Now there are definitely some that would probably qualify as more of an Opportunity Zone than others, in other words there’s more of a need for rebuilding than others because of that, but the Governors of each state actually went in and identified certain areas. And it could be just a zip code within a city. Like in Austin, for example, there may be one area of Austin they said, “We’ve identified this one zip code.” Or Houston or wherever or Detroit, all over the country.

Karl:       So it’s bringing all kinds of investors, which is what the idea was, but there’s companies that are creating essentially a real estate investment trust or a pooled real estate fund. Now let’s look at it from the investor’s standpoint. So tell us about the tax benefits, because that’s what this is all about.

Casey Keller:       That’s really what it’s all about, yes. So the benefits are, the only way you can invest in this, I should say, is you have to have a realized gain that would be basically invested or rolled over or whatever the term-

Karl:       Now would you already … So it could be property, it could be a business?

Casey Keller:       It can be anything.

Karl:       It could be a stock-

Casey Keller:       Any appreciated a

Karl:       -or a mutual fund.

Casey Keller:       Yeah, I think a sale of a business would be a-

Karl:       Now do you sell it first?

Casey Keller:       You sell it first and you’ve got six months essentially before you have to-

Karl:       Invest the money.

Casey Keller:       -invest the money into one of these funds.

Karl:       Same tax year?

Casey Keller:       It can be two different tax … Well if you can sell it in 2017, it’s all based on when you file your tax return, so it’d be the year of the sale.

Karl:       So just hypothetically, you sell an asset in 2019, and I’m going to use big numbers because if somebody has a $3,000 capital gain, this is not what we’re talking about. Most of these are $100,000 investment minimums. So let’s just say somebody has, let’s use that number. Let’s say somebody has a $200,000 investment, they have $100,000 capital gain. So they bought an asset for $100,000, it’s appreciated over time, it’s now worth $200,000. They want to sell it, but they don’t want to pay $100,000 in capital gains today, what do they do?

Casey Keller:       So with this fund, what they could do, if they roll it into a qualified Opportunity Zone Fund, they basically are allowed to defer that $100,000 gain for up to seven years. So it doesn’t eliminate that tax liability, but a couple of things. So one, you’re getting to defer it for seven years, but you’re also able to reduce that tax burden. So in this case where there’s a $100,000 cost basis, it’s grown in value by $100,000, so it’s doubled, so it’s worth $200,000, well that cost base of $100,000 at year seven, if you hold it for seven years, it goes up by 15%. So you’re getting a little bit of a break.

Karl:       So your cost base is now $115,000 and you only pay capital gains on $85,000.

Casey Keller:       On $85,000.

Karl:       Not $100,000. So that’s one benefit.

Casey Keller:       That’s one benefit. But probably more importantly is that the gains on the new investment, the Opportunity Zone investment are tax free if held for 10 years. So really, if you’re looking at this, the real benefit of it is really that you’re going to any appreciation in this fund for … Let’s say the fund that you invest in earns 7%-

Karl:       I was going to say, that’s exactly what I was going to say.

Casey Keller:       -hypothetically for the next 10 years. That means your $100,000 gain would have grown to $200,000 tax free over ten years, that extra, the new gain.

Karl:       Well the $200,000 investment would have grown to $400,000.

Casey Keller:       Oh, to $400,000. Well that brings up a new point. The reason I was mentioning that is that you can choose to just invest just the capital gain portion or the whole entire investment.

Karl:       Okay, so you were assuming, just taking the $100,000 gain and sticking it in this fund, and that doubles overtime. And that $100,000 is not taxed in the future.

Casey Keller:       Correct.

Karl:       So, yeah, you took $100,000 investment, it could be worth $400,000 and you’re only paying taxes on basically $85,000.

Casey Keller:       Exactly.

Karl:       At 20%, which could be $16-17,000 of taxes on a $400,000 investment. So you talked about 10 years, and there’s always a, I don’t want to say a catch, but there’s certainly caveats to this stuff. Number one, what is it going into? Well, most of these are development type of real estate funds. So they’re going in and maybe buying four or five, six properties and developing them. So you’re probably not going to get income on some of this for the first few years, whereas traditional REITs, the ones we use, you go in there and you start getting reasonably good income, mid-single digit income per year, because you’re buying an income stream. This is actual development where they may be building and constructing a building from the ground, so you may not get income for four or five years. So it’s not really meant for somebody needing income right off the bat, your primary purpose has got to be tax deferral.

Casey Keller:       Exactly. And so that’s why it may not make sense for a lot of folks. Where it really probably makes sense is somebody selling their business and saying, “I don’t need all of this cash right now, I don’t want to pay on all of this capital gain, but I will carve out some money and I don’t need it right away.” Or maybe somebody has a stock position or something they’ve had for a long time, decades that has a very low basis and maybe they’re concerned about the concentration that they have in that and they’re in a retirement and they’re going, “I don’t know if I want to have all of that risk. I don’t need to live off of that, I have other money potentially, but that would change my life if that fell significantly or went out of business.” And maybe it’s a way to diversify.

Karl:       Now certainly there’s somebody listening, probably a few people, that are saying, “Wait a second. If I sell real estate, there’s another way to defer taxes on real estate. Now again, we’re talking about real estate, with an opportunity zone, like you said, you can sell a business, a stock, a mutual fund. Very diverse what you can fund it with. And by the way, you can’t fund an opportunity zone fund with just cash that didn’t come from a capital gain, so that’s number one.

Karl:       But for those people that are saying, “Okay, let’s just hypothetically say I do have appreciated real estate, I’ve heard of this thing called a 1031 Exchange, which also defers.” You basically sell a property, you identify another one, that money goes into a new property. So as long as you’re keeping it in real estate, again, some caveats, but as long as you keep it in that real estate, it keeps deferring the gains. But at some point, you may pay the taxes when you sell it, but-

Casey Keller:       But you can potentially defer the taxes all the way until you pass away and get a step up.

Karl:       Yeah so explain that. So if somebody dies, with any capital gain, the way the current tax law is, if they die and they give it to somebody, explain the stepped up basis.

Casey Keller:       So yes, if someone passes away and they have an appreciated asset at the time of their death, they get a step up. So the person doesn’t inherit … The beneficiary doesn’t inherit that cost base. Basically, you get a reset.

Karl:       That’s why we don’t like when, and I’ve seen this, grandparents will gift their shares to a grandchild. All the grandchild’s doing is getting their basis. So they’re better off either giving them cash, or giving it to them at their death and they get a stepped up basis.

Casey Keller:       Correct.

Karl:       So that’s a benefit of a 1031, is that real estate … You may never pay taxes on that chunk of real estate. In an opportunity zone, you’re always deferring it. At some point, if you die, the taxes will be paid at that point, so that’s a negative of the opportunity zone and a positive of a 1031 exchange, but an opportunity zone, the benefits are it can be funded with all types of sales of capital gains, and it’s a … I guess either one, they’re diversified. You could invest in a diversified portfolio of real estate with a 1031 exchange or an opportunity zone exchange.

Casey Keller:       Right, right. The rules are a little different on that, but yeah, the main benefit is you’re transferring the taxes. Or deferring the taxes, excuse me.

Karl:       So in that example we used, somebody has 200,000 and to your point, maybe they say, “You know what? I’m only going to invest the capital gain. The other hundred I’m going to do something else with.” So they take the capital gain portion, invest it, 100,000, they leave it for 10 years. Great. What it’s in though, again, is a developed, or a development type of [inaudible 00:26:44], so again, this is where it becomes very important. Who’s doing it? How’s it managed? What are the fees? Those are things we’re researching as we speak.

Karl:       There’s some companies we’re familiar with that are doing it. So our word of advice would be very careful with doing this, and also again, most of these investments are a minimum of 100,000, so again, we’re talking about big capital gains that, you know, for some money that you don’t need right now. Because that’s the other thing. Like you said, the most powerful thing about this is really the tax-free-ness of that money being invested going forward.

Karl:       Now, the caveat is it does … The income’s taxed on it, as you invest in this opportunity zone.

Casey Keller:       That’s correct, yeah. It’s only the capital gains that are tax free going forward. You have hold the investment for 10 years, but any income that it produces may be great if you’re living off it and you need that, and there may be funds right now that may produce income right away. We’re still exploring all that but-

Karl:       So this is probably … Think about who this might be ideal for. Probably who it’s not ideal for is somebody that’s getting up there in age, because they would benefit from a stepped up basis, whereas an opportunity zone doesn’t have that. So they’re probably not a good candidate. And also somebody that doesn’t have a large capital gain, obviously, isn’t a great candidate. A really good candidate would be somebody with a large capital gain that’s younger. And I say younger, even 30s, 40s and 50s, that doesn’t need the money for the next 10 years.

Casey Keller:       Or they don’t need all of it. Maybe they sold their business and had virtually zero basis and now they’ve got this check coming in that they would have to write a very big check to the IRS for taxes and they’re going, “I don’t need every bit of that money right now. Can I defer a portion of that or a big chunk of that?” And that could save them quite a bit over the long term.

Karl:       Well, and again, this is where financial planning comes in, because you have to look at the whole situation, right? You’re not going to take somebody who has 95% of their net worth in their business. They sell that, do an opportunity zone with all of it, right, and have all their money in an opportunity zone that they can’t get to for 10 years, that doesn’t produce income, so again, it’s for somebody that has a big capital gain and has other investments and probably doesn’t need this money for the next 10 years? Then it’s an ideal candidate.

Karl:       Maybe it’s only 5% of our listeners, who knows. But this is something you’ll hear about and you’ve got to be very careful. Don’t be suckered into doing something that you don’t understand and as with any new investment, there’s really bad characters, probably, doing some of this and there’s some really good companies. But they’re all very different. The fees, the minimums, ’cause these are funds, right? They’re going to charge a ongoing management fee and some of them are structured like a hedge fund, where they’re incentivized to grow it and so they want to take part of the profit. That’s totally fine, it’s just this isn’t going to show up on your brokerage statement, right?

Karl:       This is going to be a private investment, basically, but we wanted to bring this to you, because again, it’s happening kind of in real time because the tax law change is pretty new and a lot of these funds are just now getting up and running after they’ve done all the documents and they’ve read through the law to make sure they understand it. These funds are brand new and they’re actually gaining capital, so it’s another tool in the tool belt. It may be one that you never use, but our job is to bring it to you and you probably haven’t heard of this before, so that’s why we’re talking about it.

Karl:       Anything else we missed, [Casey 00:30:12], that is something that you want to share at all? I mean, I think we covered everything, but …

Casey Keller:       I think so, yes.

Karl:       I think the most interesting part of it is kind of what you said about the old census, because again, it’d be one thing to go into a really decimated area, economically, and you’re one of the first investors in there, you know, who knows how that’s going to go? But some of these areas are brand new and they look great because they’ve been developing for 10 years, but they were just using an old census from 10 years ago.

Casey Keller:       No, I think that’s a good point. In fact, that’s one of the perhaps unintended consequences of this whole idea, is that right now, a lot of these funds that are early into the game, they’re cherry-picking the very best areas of the opportunity zones and potentially leaving behind the areas that need the most investment, per se, and so I think eventually the money will filter in there, but early on investors may benefit more than later investors. Hard to say, but you know that’s-

Karl:       I’m always a big fan of incentivizing investors, but with anything like this, when you have some program, people are going to find the loopholes, they’re going to work the system and yeah, first come, first serve on the properties that are really low risk, high end, nice properties, and like you said, that may be in the west part of the opportunity zone in a particular city, the east part may be really run down and then does the opportunity zone investors just shy away from that and it never gets funded and it kind of … It was a useless exercise.

Casey Keller:       Maybe, yeah. Jury’s still out.

Karl:       Anyways, if you have any questions, let us know. But these are called opportunity zone funds, and also, as I said, this is not going to be a regular mutual fund that you can buy at a brokerage house. This is going to be basically an alternative type of investment and it will not be on anybody’s broker statement, so a ton of due diligence has to be done, and I wouldn’t recommend anybody doing this without the help of some advisor. Again, we may never do one ourselves, but we are researching this as we speak and we know there’s a few people of our clients that fit the bill for this, so we just wanted to share it with you guys.

Karl:       Casey, thanks for coming in and discussing this with us. We appreciate it.

Casey Keller:       My pleasure.K

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This show is for entertainment only and information provided by the hosts, guests and this station should not be deemed as advise. Your investment decisions should be based on your own specific needs. You should do your own research before you make those decisions. As President and CEO of Eggerss Capital Management, Karl Eggerss may hold securities mentioned in the show for himself and his clients. Just don’t buy or sell anything based on what you get from radio or TV. Use your own judgment, or get yourself a trusted advisor.

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